Episode 176 James Mendez on Playing With Chemistry
James Mendez on Playing With Chemistry
Episode Summary:
This episode of Experience Points features James Mendez, a professor of chemistry at Indiana University Columbus who designs 3D-printed models, role-playing games, and board games to make chemistry approachable for students who are not chemistry majors. James explains how boredom in his classes led him to 3D printing, and why he embraced colleagues' criticism that his models were just toys. In his interview he discusses how holding a physical model makes abstract concepts concrete, and why the hardest compromise between scientific accuracy and playability is resisting the urge to include too much - a lesson James learned from his first chemistry role-playing game, Chemistry and Chaos. James advises professors designing their first learning game to play what already exists, such as Periodic and Chemistry Fluxx, before reinventing the wheel. James closes by describing Periodic Pipes, his board game that turns the periodic table into a path of knowledge checks, and encourages subject matter experts to try designing a game even when early attempts fall short.
James Mendez
he/him/his
Professor of Chemistry, Game Designer
Indiana University Columbus - Columbus, IN USA
James "J.D." Mendez is a professor of chemistry at Indiana University Columbus, where he has spent the past 12 years helping students see chemistry as approachable and even fun. He earned his undergraduate degree from Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology and his doctorate from Case Western Reserve University. His passion for active learning led him to develop 3D-printed models that bring complex chemical concepts to life, and in 2017 he received a Fulbright Scholarship to teach a course on biopolymers in Estonia. More recently, James has turned to game design, creating role-playing and board games that teach chemistry through hands-on play. His role-playing game Chemistry and Chaos, published in the Journal of Chemical Education, casts students as different types of chemists on an instructor-guided adventure, and his board game Periodic Pipes turns the periodic table into a path players travel one element at a time. His work blends science, creativity, and play to make chemistry more accessible to learners of all ages.
(Google Scholar): https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=YYFO77cAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sra
(TikTok): https://www.tiktok.com/@j.d.mendez
[Dave Eng] (0:00 - 0:57)
Hi and welcome to Experience Points by University XP. On Experience Points, we explore different ways we can learn from games. I'm your host Dave Eng from games-based learning by University XP.
Find out more at www.universityxp.com. On today's episode, we'll learn from James Mendez. James Mendez is a professor of chemistry at Indiana University Columbus, where he's spent the past 12 years helping students see chemistry as approachable and even fun.
His passion for active learning led him to develop 3D-printed models that bring complex chemical concepts to life. More recently, James has turned to game design, creating role-playing and board games that teach chemistry through engaging hands-on play. His work blends science, creativity, and play to make chemistry more accessible to learners of all ages. James, welcome to the show!
[James Mendez] (0:58 - 1:00)
I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
[Dave Eng] (1:00 - 1:28)
Great. I am happy to have you as well, James, and I'm glad you reached out to me about your game overall. I want to start off today's conversation, though, with specifically your discipline because we've never interviewed anyone from the chemistry discipline before.
And I know that based on the intro, you've spent more than a decade teaching chemistry, but you've also moved into designing games and interactive learning tools. So, my first question is, what convinced you that play could accomplish something in chemistry education that traditional instruction alone could not?
[James Mendez] (1:29 - 3:35)
Yeah. I think a lot of other teachers and professors can relate to this, but I got really tired of looking out in my class and seeing just boredom, right? Too often, because I'm teaching a class that's really not for chemistry majors, I would see people that really weren't very engaged at all.
So, one of the first things I saw that really got me excited about kind of a more engaging way to teach was when I first saw a 3D printer. So, the first 3D printer I saw was like amazing to me because I love using models in my class. And 3D printing just opens up so many different options of what we can make and use in the classroom.
One of the first complaints I got when I started to actually start making different models for use in the chemistry classroom was I had other professors who would say like, well, these are just toys. These aren't really good for a college atmosphere. They're just to play with.
And I was like, well, of course they're toys, okay? I mean, being a toy is a good thing if it gets the students more engaged, more excited about learning, right? And so for me, that kind of led into that whole, well, if I'm making these tools and models for students to play, why don't we actually make a game as well?
I had always loved making or playing different games in my class, like Jeopardy or Kahoot, which I'm sure lots of people have done. But then I started thinking, well, there aren't games for these specific things. Maybe I can make a game like this.
I mean, I remember being surprised that these didn't exist. The very first time I wanted to play a role-playing game in class, I was like, surely, surely there are other chemists out there who have made some sort of chemistry-themed Dungeons & Dragons sort of module. And I was surprised that they hadn't.
So I was like, well, maybe I can just do this myself, right? So that's really what got me started.
[Dave Eng] (3:35 - 4:16)
That's neat. And then what was interesting about your response is you were saying how, yeah, it's a toy and that's okay. I think the term that I've heard more often than not, and I don't know if it's like an official term, but I remember, quote-unquote, toyetic. Like something is, it's like a toy.
It's not designed to be a toy. But we're going to talk about your game and using games-based learning to teach chemistry. But overall, how would you say having something be playful or toyetic has helped your students engage?
We realize that not everything is going to be interesting to everyone, but hopefully making something more playful also makes it more engaging.
[James Mendez] (4:17 - 5:33)
Yeah, right. Now, in chemistry, we use a lot of molecular model kits for a lot of different things. I don't know if you remember those, the kits you put together, different molecules, and you get like, you can see essentially what you're being taught.
So, I really started by coming up with different versions of that because those can't do everything. So, I was like, well, you know, it's okay if they have fun assembling a molecule or have fun assembling a model of an atom. I think that's great.
For me, I didn't really take it as a bad thing, that idea of people calling it a toy, because if they're having fun while also learning something, that's exactly what I would like to go for. Because I understand that me just sitting up there talking at a student isn't going to be very exciting. So, if I give them and they're making something on their own, great.
And the truth is sometimes they use these tools; they use these kits for things that aren't intended. They'll make some crazy molecule or assemble these models in some form that I've never even thought about. And for them, it's at least they're trying, they're interacting with the material in some way, even if it wasn't exactly the way I intended.
[Dave Eng] (5:34 - 6:01)
Right. And I think that there's something to be said about being able to see a physical model of a particular molecule. Like I remember specifically in high school, like being able to see a 3D representation of a hydrocarbon, because, you know, like it looks different in a textbook versus holding it in your hands.
And for me, it just kind of like, you know, chemistry is not my discipline, but at least for me, it helped better explain that was a very abstract concept to like a teenager as a more physical concept.
[James Mendez] (6:02 - 6:46)
Well, that's what I try to stress too, is even the best textbooks are really just two-dimensional models of the three-dimensional world we live in, right? You know, so even if that model is not super accurate, it's better than nothing, you know? And, you know, we made models for other disciplines as well.
I mean, this isn't just true for chemistry, you know, I've made different anatomical models for our nursing students, you know, or, you know, even our business students have made like models of the thing they're trying to market for their marketing class, you know? So, I really think it's not specific just to science even, that there's definitely a benefit to having those things that you can hold in your hand and interact with.
[Dave Eng] (6:46 - 7:23)
Right, right. And I'm glad you brought that up because that brings me into the second point here, which is I know that with a lot of disciplines, whenever we use games to teach, there is going to be a dedication to accuracy and sometimes a dedication to playability and sometimes it's like a zero-sum game. So, I know that overall chemistry comes with rules, terminology, a lot of scientific vocabulary, accuracy, while games often need simplification to remain playable.
So, my second question is, for you, what has been the hardest compromise you've had to make between accurately representing the science and creating a game that people actually want to play?
[James Mendez] (7:24 - 8:28)
Sure. I think one of my big problems is wanting to include too much. Like many disciplines, there's a lot going on in chemistry.
So, one of the very first games I made was this role-playing game about chemistry. And so, I tried to include everything in there, you know, and it just proved to be too difficult. You know, I can't fit a whole semester's worth of material into one game.
So, what I really tried to do after that was really try to narrow down my focus because I think you're absolutely right when you talk about games need to be at least simple enough that they have clearly defined rules, right? So instead of focusing on these big expansive things, I've said, okay, well, this game is going to focus on the periodic table. This game is going to focus on electron configuration, you know?
So, narrowing that focus, I think, has really been important to me to get something that's, you know, has a clear goal in mind and is still fun to play.
[Dave Eng] (8:30 - 9:22)
And I think that a focus on one particular thing is a really good design consideration for a lot of educators to take. In the same way that I would say, you know, like for a lot of three-credit bearing like undergraduate courses, it's usually spread out over the course of like 12 or 16 weeks. Like you don't try to throw everything into one week.
Rather, you try to scaffold it accordingly. And likewise, we've discussed before our recording and also I've talked to other educators. Sometimes when you're trying to get into educational game design for the first time, you just have to pick like one thing.
And that one thing could even be much simpler than you previously had in mind. Like you don't need to gamify everything, but you can just take one particular concept and develop a game or, you know, like a game-like experience out of it. It doesn't need to be everything.
It can just be one simple thing.
[James Mendez] (9:23 - 9:36)
Yeah, and I think that's where I was naive when I started out thinking, you know, I could do everything at once, right? And it's proved to be like, that's still a fun game I play, but it doesn't do everything that I thought it would be.
[Dave Eng] (9:37 - 9:54)
And, you know, I don't know if we had talked about this when we had connected prior to the interview, but because we're talking about chemistry, I feel like I have to bring up some sort of Breaking Bad connection. Do any of your colleagues or your students bring that up with you?
[James Mendez] (9:54 - 10:18)
Oh, yeah. No, they do bring it up all the time, you know. And, you know, they ask like, oh, you know, so are we going to make drugs or whatever?
I was like, all right, sure. If you can show me all the steps, you know, in order to do that, you know, let's see this. And they get, you know, very - their enthusiasm wanes once they realize, you know, like, oh, crap, he's going to actually make us learn the chemistry of this. I'm going to stop bringing it up.
[Dave Eng] (10:19 - 10:46)
I mean, it sounds like an interesting challenge because one of my most memorable quotes from the show is that Walter White explaining that chemistry is the science of change. And I was like, you know, that's a pretty good - I don't think it's an oversimplification of chemistry, but, yeah, I mean, chemistry is the study of change. And I was like, oh, yeah, you know, that's - not only is that good writing, I think that's also good simplicity given, you know, from a character that is highly knowledgeable in the area.
[James Mendez] (10:46 - 11:13)
Sure, sure, you know. And, you know, also over the years, too, I mean, I've had people, of course, reference this, you know, but like, I'll have even administrators be worried about me leaving the chemistry door open or something, you know, that someone's going to walk in there, you know, and turn into their own version of Walter White, you know, and say something. And I'm like, I'm not teaching our students that much right now, you know, like, trust me, I would notice if something was going on.
[Dave Eng] (11:14 - 11:24)
I feel like that's also, like, I don't think anyone is going to accidentally come into your lab and start making methamphetamine. Like, it's not that simple, you know?
[James Mendez] (11:24 - 11:38)
No, no, no, no, no. It's definitely not that. They're most likely to just blow themselves up first, you know, or, you know, I don't know, maybe take some glassware.
That's not what keeps me up at night is worrying about that.
[Dave Eng] (11:38 - 12:07)
Right, right. Okay, so that leads me into the third and last question here. And I want you to really talk about the game that you're working on, James, the reason why you reached out initially, which is starting in game design.
So, for this question, I want you to imagine a professor listening that has a subject that they know deeply about and have an idea for a learning game, but they've never designed a game before. So, referencing the game that you're working on right now, what would you tell them to do first? And what common mistake would you warn them to avoid?
[James Mendez] (12:08 - 13:56)
Sure. So, I would say what I found to be very, very important is looking at what's already out there. So, the game I'm working on right now is called Periodic Pipes.
It's all about learning about the periodic table through a board game. Okay. And I did not set out thinking that's what I was going to make.
I set out going to say, I want to see if there's a game already out there that teaches about the periodic table, you know? And honestly, I found a bunch of chemistry-themed games out there. I like to think, maybe I don't have them all, but I've at least tried them all, you know?
Games like Periodic and Chemistry Fluxx, you know, are really fun games that I love. And I think they really informed what I'm doing with my game, you know? I've seen things I like about them, and I've seen things I don't like about them, right?
You know? And I think when I think about the biggest mistake to avoid, it would be not seeing what's already out there, you know? Because we don't have to reinvent the wheel to keep our students engaged, right?
If there's a tool out there that works, you know, use it. One of the biggest mistakes I saw, I was actually at a chemistry conference a few weeks ago, and I saw someone present about this really neat, you know, biochemistry-themed game, you know, that looked like fun and engaging, but also it looked very similar to some commercially available, you know, chemistry-themed games that are already out there, you know? And when asked about it, you know, they hadn't tried any of these other ones.
So, I think not looking at what's out there is a really big mistake to try to avoid.
[Dave Eng] (13:57 - 14:22)
And then based on that response, James, I'm immediately thinking, and tell me if you agree with this, is that as part of like a doctoral program or a terminal degree program, you often perform a literature review on your topic because you don't want to reinvent the wheel. Like, you want to see what other people have studied and what other conclusions they've come to so that you can make a unique contribution. And that seems kind of parallel, right? Like, seeing what other games are already available.
[James Mendez] (14:23 - 15:02)
Yeah. And I think for me that also was key, you know? Like, I do design games because I think it's fun, you know, and I'm looking for ways to keep my students engaged.
But, you know, I mean, the key reason I'm doing it is so I can have something to use in the classroom. So, if that tool already exists, that basically just saves me time, you know? I don't want to waste my time, you know, on something that someone else has already done better, right?
You know? So, we play a lot of, you know, Chemistry Fluxx in my class, you know? And I have a whole library of games here that, you know, I get people to play, so.
[Dave Eng] (15:03 - 15:12)
So, based on that, and I know you talked about Periodic Pipes, can you tell us a little bit more about what Periodic Pipes is, how it plays, and how you think it's different from other chemistry games that you've played?
[James Mendez] (15:13 - 16:42)
Sure, sure. So, in Periodic Pipes, you basically have a board that is the periodic table. So, the path you traverse on the board is every element on the periodic table, starting from hydrogen going all the way up to plutonium.
And I just ended on plutonium because I didn't have a better place to end. But the idea is that students take turns moving around this path and drawing cards and answering questions about the elements they land on. So, they might land on oxygen and draw a card that has atomic number on it, and they have to identify the atomic number of oxygen.
Or they might, you know, land on fluorine and need to identify the atomic mass. So the idea is taking those things that we would be doing in class and hopefully presenting it in a little bit more fun and engaging way. What I've seen from chemistry games that are already out there is a lot of the commercially available ones, at least, are more focused on gameplay rather than learning some specific thing, which I think is perfectly fine, right?
Like I keep referencing Chemistry Fluxx. I think that's a great game. Students get to see different elements, see different atoms and molecules, but it's more about exposure rather than learning a specific concept.
And that's really what I was trying to focus in on my games is trying to put that learning first while still making it engaging enough that students want to come back and play it on their own.
[Dave Eng] (16:44 - 17:14)
Great. Well, thank you for sharing about that. I think that I gained a lot of information learning more about your role and your background and designing this game from the ground up.
I realize that, you know, you're not the only person out there in this discipline that is trying to do so, but just knowing a little bit more about what is available, what can you use right now, and just knowing that you don't have to reinvent the wheel. Like if something already exists that I think accomplishes the job that you want to do, then it's okay to use it. And that is perfectly fine.
[James Mendez] (17:15 - 17:40)
And I think I would stress, too, that it's okay just to try it, too. I mean, I've definitely made a bunch of games that, like, were not that great, you know, but I still think it was worth trying, you know? So, I don't want to discourage anyone from just trying to make a game, you know?
If you're a subject matter expert and you don't see a game about, I don't know, peptide synthesis or something like that, give it a try. Yeah.
[Dave Eng] (17:40 - 17:54)
All right. So unfortunately, I've run out of time for today's conversation. So, thank you for joining us today, James.
I appreciate you being here. Where can people go out to find more about you online and also to see if they can get a copy of Periodic Pipes?
[James Mendez] (17:55 - 18:33)
Yeah, so I am definitely still an academic. So, most of what I talk about, you know, are just games that are in papers and things like that. So, if you use Google Scholar, look for me, James Mendez.
That's going to be the best place. I also have a small presence on TikTok where I do some random chemistry memes. That's @j.d.mendez. And then Periodic Pipes will hopefully be available at the end of 2026 sometime on a Kickstarter. So look for that, Periodic Pipes. And you can also just email me at mendezja@iu.edu if you want to know more about my games.
[Dave Eng] (18:34 - 18:40)
Great. Thank you, James. I'll make sure to include the links to all of those in the references and show notes.
So, thanks for joining us.
[James Mendez] (18:40 - 18:41)
All right. Thank you.
[Dave Eng] (18:43 - 19:44)
I hope you found this episode useful. If you'd like to learn more, then a great place to start is with my free course on gamification. You can sign up for it at www.universityxp.com/gamification. You can also get a full transcript of this episode, including links to references in the description or show notes.
Thanks for joining us. Again, I'm your host Dave Eng from games-based learning by University XP. On Experience Points, we explore different ways we can learn from games.
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Cite this Episode
Eng, D. (Host). (2026, November 1). James Mendez on Playing With Chemistry. (No. 176) [Audio podcast episode]. Experience Points. University XP. https://www.universityxp.com/podcast/176
Internal Ref: UXPOFEUYFX4D
References
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