Episode 144 Ercan Altug Yilmaz Gamification in Action The TOY Framework
Ercan Altug Yilmaz Gamification in Action The TOY Framework
Episode Summary:
In this episode, Dave Eng interviews Ercan Altuğ Yilmaz, a leading gamification expert and creator of the TOY Framework—an evolution of existing models like Werbach’s D6 and Octalysis. Drawing from over a decade of experience and 100+ projects, Yilmaz explains how TOY’s ten-step structure blends theory with practical business needs, emphasizing behavior change beyond badges and rewards. He discusses the importance of human- and company-centric objectives, his use of 118 gamification cards, and the role of nudges in organizational settings. The episode also explores balancing academic theory with real-world application in gamified learning.
Ercan Altuğ Yilmaz
he/him/his
Gamification Designer, Academician
Gamfed Turkiye
Altug is the author of the first Turkish gamification book : ‘Herkes icin Oyunlastirma’ and he is Gamification Federation GamFed’s Turkey re-presenter. He is lecturing at Bahcesehir University Istanbul /Turkey and doing gamification consultancy for companies.
(Twitter): https://x.com/ercanaltug
(LinkedIn): https://www.linkedin.com/in/ercanaltug/
(Website): https://gamificationdecards.com/
Dave Eng:
Hi, and welcome to Experience Points by University XP. On Experience Points, we explore different ways we can learn from games. I'm your host, Dave Eng, from Games-Based Learning by University XP. Find out more by going to www.universityxp.com. On today's episode, we'll learn from Ercan Altug Yilmaz. Ercan is the author of Gamification for Everyone, the very first gamification book published in Turkish, selling more than 10,000 copies and serves as a reference book from many universities. Ercan serves as the Turkey representative for the Gamification Federation or shortly GamFed, which is a non-profit community focused on gamification globally and he currently lectures at Bahçeşehir University in Istanbul, Turkey. On top of that, he provides gamification consulting for a variety of companies giving mentoring for startups and making keynote talks. Ercan, welcome to the show.
Ercan Altug Yilmaz
Thank you, Dave. It's very such an honor to be part of this great show, Dave.
Dave Eng:
Great, I'm glad to have you here. So Ercan, part of the reason I asked you back was last year at the Games-Based Learning Virtual Conference, you presented on a presentation about the TOY framework. So I'm familiar with it because I attended that conference session, but for those that are just learning about you and your work, what is the TOY framework and why should educators, designers, and strategists examine this framework? What gives it significance?
Ercan Altug Yilmaz:
Thank you. I mean, the framework is we always try to be followed with some steps and when I first involved gamification almost 10 years ago, Dave, I was educational technologist, firstly. I was working for a telco company and I'm creating some game-based solutions, simulations, series game, some trivias, and video learning and blend learning. But we try to gamify all of this learning management systems.
And when I take a look for some gamify process, I found many frameworks like D6, like Hook, or Octalysis kind of framework and every framework has some strong part and I started [inaudible 00:02:36] many years, I figure out that I need some 10 steps to follow actually and very influenced from Kevin Werbach model called D6. Probably many our listeners know about Kevin Werbach D6 model, but I updated to the TOY and TOY is actually Turkish "oyun." "Oyun" is a game in Turkey is actually also Turkish word too.
So I translated it to the TOY framework with the 10 steps and 10 steps actually every steps actually blended with each other. And when I started to gamify some solution, we need to take a look for these 10 steps and I also add 118 cards below of it to understand all models, like game elements or feedbacks or rewards. These kind of things are going to be on a card on below on that and people can take a look about this www.gamificationdecards.com. These frameworks help us to understand which steps we follow and 10 steps we already put on this TOY framework.
Dave Eng:
Okay, thank you, Ercan. I have the website, it's www.gamificationdecards.com and I'm familiar with Kevin Werbach's work. That was where I first started examining gamification and looking for some applications. So Kevin's original book, Gamification for the Win, I'll include a link for that in the show description and show notes. But I wanted to know more from you, Ercan. There are several different frameworks you talked about, specifically Werbach's D6 framework, we talked about Octalysis. Why did you think that the TOY framework was really necessary? You looked at existing frameworks and then you created your own. What makes yours a little bit different?
Ercan Altug Yilmaz:
Yeah, actually it's like a museum creator, let's say, this way because the framework actually starts with business objective, like D6 model. But I put some extra things, which I am giving some consultancy to Turkish companies also from startups, global startups from US or Europe. So everything start with the business targets.
But for example, in my cards, first step we have two other examples, like human-centric business targets or company-centric business targets. I'm giving this example. So 10 steps with the first step, we should think that what person player going to be have in this gamification project and also company going to be earned this project. I think I updated this step that this step's first step is the business objectives. My steps is also business objective, but you have to choose company-centric and human-centric, for example.
So I updated other cards like player types or these Hook model for triggers, think about triggers and these examples. Also, the Octalysis is very important for them, especially the balance of the emotions, not only on the positive things but you have to use some black hat we call. So I am going to be create these 10 steps.
And I use deca, deca mean in Latin 10. So we put this Gamification Decards model so you can download it all English for free and try to be understand every step for this model and you can think about which step is more important. Then you can think about, "I should choose this because we focus on human-centric targets," something like that. So this is the actually free framework and with my experience more than 100 projects and also almost 10 years, I got many pushback from the company, like you tell about gamification but we just cannot measure, for example, correctly. Why? Because we are just talking about badges or just reward. These are not actually business targets. We need to be thinking about not only the badges or rewards or this kind of game elements, these are statistics. At my eight steps, for example, you have to think about what is going to be happen after the gamification process, behavior change or increase the sales or increase the turnover, something like that. We need to think about this. The successful gamification project always focus on outside of games.
Again that because it's very important when I involve the gamification, everyone talks about game elements, statics and player statics, session times, something like that. But successfully gamification actually, like our mothers using game techniques to the children, these are after gamification, children needs to be read book or eating their food, something like that. These are the behavior change and sustained behavior change is very important for us after the game. So this is this eight step, for example. So I put my knowledge for these 10 steps and every steps actually coming from the companies and questioning the gamification and I update this model like this.
Dave Eng:
Great, thank you, Ercan. I appreciate that. I know that the TOY framework is a really good starting place, but I want to jump into the second question. And you talked about this a little bit, but I really want to put on the hat that I'm a business leader, I lead an organization. And you talk about in your presentation and you discussed a little bit before about the gamification matrix. So originally when I heard about your presentation for the conference, I was a little bit skeptical about the TOY framework, but I realize and you also shared that it's an acronym. But let's say we're applying the TOY framework through a gamification matrix and I'm a business owner and I'm trying to solve a specific problem. How does the gamification matrix within the TOY framework address, I guess, issues that I may be dealing with as a business owner? Help me put it into perspective.
Ercan Altug Yilmaz:
Yeah, it's very important because everyone talking about gamification, sometimes they think about different things and gamification matrix is very important. I also reference in my consultant too. At the beginning, we think about our workers going to be playing some games in my company or they are thinking about we are very busy, how we can take another time or is not related our serious business.
For example, we are in pharmacy, we are saving life, we are doctors or nurses, how we can gamify something? Gamification, Dave, apply anything, let me say it this way. Of course it's changed like a duration or it can be changed like serious business and some touching with some serious words or this kind of thing.
We try to be understand the target audience and how we can motivate these personas and maybe sometimes if they are too busy, we are trying to put some we call nudge just to try to remind them very small things and try to put game design very shortly. Or if they focus on the service business like doctors or something like that, we are trying to be put some serious games, which you are very common work on that too.
Because they have some safe areas, not game areas. You need to be some borders and some easy to use these game elements in the free area. So in my steps, let say this way, gamification is not one solution for all and we try to be understand target audience motivations and game cultures and we try to be put these game 10 steps. Sometimes you can skip some of them or you can just choose one step and choose one persona. I just give example, like a busy person just using just a nudge, just reminding pop-ups, something like that. So we don't use same tactics to do every one. Some of them motivated with very small business like we say this way, some of them need to be more journeys, player journeys like onboarding, like scaffolding, like weeks, sometimes months they can be motivated. So gamification matrix is very important. There is no one solution for all you need to understand.
Dave Eng:
Right. Wow, Ercan, thank you. I think that's one of the things that a lot of people don't realize with gamification that overall sometimes organizations and leaders are just trying to get a little bit of a behavior change and you brought up nudge there, which I think is really useful because sometimes I feel like people are going to want to create a serious game or an educational game and it's really going to change the world.
Whereas I think that for a lot of organization leaders and business leaders, sometimes we just need a small behavior change that can happen through a nudge and using gamification and game-like elements and non-game settings. So I thank you for your feedback there and that actually comes up to my third question and last question because I know that that individual change of behavior is really necessary and I think that your background and my background are similar in that we're both academics, we're both professionals.
So I want to ask you, blending theory and application as an academic and a practitioner, I think that you're in a pretty unique position in one that I shared with you. How do you balance theory with application and then how do you teach your students to do the same?
Ercan Altug Yilmaz:
Yeah, just like you said, I love this taking the academic theories, understand deep level and try to be a practitioner in the actually field, let say this way, Dave. And I always feeding from the field, like customers or workers, I'm going to update my slides in my lectures. Yeah, I was three years almost full-time academician and then after pandemic I started to giving still lecturing but not full-time but create more companies. I'm doing some consultancy and I can easily work right now with [inaudible 00:13:51] because I couldn't do this when I was an academician. And I'm still doing actually if you are too academic and in this kind of experience, let's say, because you need to be feed yourself with the real human behavior. And if you don't do any project, if you just read it or just research it, it's not enough. It's powerful, but it's not enough.
But I just give two lectures today. One of them was a bank for [inaudible 00:14:22] introduction to the gamification. They just find many places, already they think that they're doing gamification, like who is the best and we put their photos in the LCD screen and they just go out with the CEO, something like that, rewarding and some feedback. But they understand how they can update existing gamification. They don't call it gamification in company, but they already doing some motivational theories and actually they're using some reward and motivational part.
So this is very powerful in the field too. When as an academician you come, yes, you do this, for example, 10 steps, you do this two steps. But you didn't think about, for example, triggers or maybe you can use some physical triggers. You're just using application or vice versa. You're just using actually the office environment and director or manager for a gamification process while you don't use any digital applications.
So this is actually two-way they can feed each other and I find it is very valuable and I can easily using... I have two hats there. I am saying if I go to the companies, I use my academician hat, I'm using Gabe Zichermann model, I show some Octalysis design, something like that. This is very theoretical, people love it. But when I go to the back, actually the students and other teachers, I'm doing mostly, by the way, doing some TTs, train of the trainers. I'm doing many things for the academician right now too and other universities.
So I use many example from the field. Do you know what, for example, D6. D6 is a great model, but they need four more steps, like triggers, like business objective need two or three counts, something like that because Kevin Werbach did that 10 years ago or something. It's very powerful but it's already changed. So academician love it and I use some company names sometimes. I'm saying Turkish Airlines did that, it work, but this not work, for example. And they love it. Academician loves the feeding from the field. So I love it. I think you love that too, and it's very powerful to feed too part of this my career.
Dave Eng:
Right. Thank you, Ercan. I think that I do like working in industry, I also do like serving as an academic and I feel like the distinction between both of them are that as academics, we're always thinking about why or the theory behind things, but working in a professional working environment, working in business or for corporations, a lot of the times they're going to be application focused. So how does something apply and how will it change my business or what kind of impact will it have overall? So I think that is the most memorable takeaway and something that I think that a lot of listeners for the show could also use in their own practice. So the academic side is often focused on why, but then the practical consideration is how you actually apply it. So thank you, Ercan. We are just out of time, so I'm going to go with our guest outro. Ercan, I appreciate you sharing your time with us today. Where can people go to find out more about you online?
Ercan Altug Yilmaz:
Firstly, thanks, Dave. I got many experience points today with you! And I'm very proud to be part of great show and I love your producing content.
Dave Eng:
Thank you.
Ercan Altug Yilmaz:
In LinkedIn, I just retweet. When I see in Twitter X, I just retweet. Also, I am because you know that I'm a representing of GamFed and also member of GamFed Turkey. So many people love your content and please keep it producing. I love your content. And yes, they can follow me from LinkedIn with my name. And my mostly post in Turkish, yes, I know, and many people advise me to do that. If it's, for example, like this podcast, if it's to English, I always share in English, no problem. And Gamification Decards, they can download all three 118 cards English tab. And also, I produce with my one of students focused on AI. We produced a CustomGPT and for TOY framework, it's a beta right now. It's very new. Actually we just started three or four months ago
And they can take a look about that too. I think it's great to be some deep dive in that too to ask some questions. For example, "I work with this company and I need to gamify hiring," or "I need to game culture feedback," for example. Please take a look about this CustomGPTs because ChatGPT is not well enough, Dave. Maybe you'll try that too. But if you put some context in CustomGPT, it's nice. It's good start to please take a look about this Gamification Decards website for CustomGPT too. And like I told you, I am always happy to be part of this great show.
Dave Eng:
Great, thank you, Ercan. I appreciate it. I'm especially looking forward to that new GPT because I think that applying generative artificial intelligence would be great for our work. So thank you again, Ercan.
Ercan Altug Yilmaz:
Thank you, Dave. Thank you.
Dave Eng:
I hope you found this episode useful. If you'd like to learn more, then a great place to start is my free course on gamification. You can sign up for it at www.universityxp.com/gamification. You can also get a full transcript of this episode, including links to references and a description or show notes. So thanks for joining us. Again, I'm your host, Dave Eng from Games-Based Learning by University XP. On Experience Points, we explore different ways we can learn from games. So if you like this episode, please consider commenting, sharing, and subscribing. Subscribing is absolutely free and ensures that you'll get the next episode of Experience Points delivered directly to you. I'd also love it if you took some time to rate the show. I live to lift others with learning. So if you found this episode useful, consider sharing it with someone who could also benefit. Also, make sure to visit University XP online at www.universityxp.com. University XP is also on Twitter and Bluesky as University XP and on Facebook and LinkedIn as University XP. Also, feel free to email me anytime. My email address is dave@universityxp.com. Game on.
Cite this Episode
Eng, D. (Host). (2025, August 10). Ercan Altug Yilmaz Gamification in Action The TOY Framework. (No. 144) [Audio podcast episode]. Experience Points. University XP. https://www.universityxp.com/podcast/144
Internal Ref: UXPXILJUXYJP
References
Çalik, A., Sen, A., Aydin, Z., & Yilmaz, E. A. (2023). The TOY Gamification Model: A comprehensive method to effective design. International Society for Technology, Education, and Science. https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED652324.pdf
Eng, D. (2020, April 30). What is gamification? Retrieved May 14, 2025, from https://www.universityxp.com/blog/2020/4/30/what-is-gamification
Eng, D. (2020, May 14). What is a simulation? Retrieved May 14, 2025, from https://www.universityxp.com/blog/2020/5/14/what-is-a-simulation
Eng, D. (2021, September 28). Playing serious games. Retrieved May 14, 2025, from https://www.universityxp.com/blog/2021/9/28/playing-serious-games
Eng, D. (2024, March 5). What is the player journey? Retrieved May 14, 2025, from https://www.universityxp.com/blog/2024/3/5/what-is-the-player-journey
Eng, D. (2024, May 28). What are educational games? Retrieved May 14, 2025, from https://www.universityxp.com/blog/2024/5/28/what-are-educational-games
Gamfed. (n.d.). International Gamification Confederation Conference. https://www.gaminginturkey.com/en/gamfed-international-gamification-confederation-conference-turkey/
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Rare Book. (n.d.). Gamification - Gamification for everyone - Add games to your business and life - Ercan Altuğ Yılmaz. https://www.nadirkitap.com/oyunlastirma-herkes-icin-oyunlastirma-isinize-ve-hayatiniza-oyun-katin-ercan-altug-yilmaz-kitap12597341.html
IGI Global. (n.d.). What is D6 design framework. https://www.igi-global.com/dictionary/d6-design-framework/117887
Werbach, K., & Hunter, D. (2020). For the win, revised and updated edition: The power of gamification and game thinking in business, education, government, and social impact. University of Pennsylvania Press. https://www.degruyterbrill.com/document/doi/10.9783/9781613631041/html