Episode 164 Victoria Ichizli-Bartels on Be Your Best Game Master
Victoria Ichizli-Bartels on Be Your Best Game Master
Episode Summary
This episode of Experience Points features self-gamification pioneer Victoria Ichizli-Bartels, who reveals how treating everyday life as a game can spark joy, reduce stress, and boost productivity. Victoria shares how combining role-playing, kaizen, and playful design helps people navigate challenges with curiosity and self-compassion. Drawing on her background in engineering and storytelling, she explains how reframing emotions as game characters fosters inner dialogue, insight, and resilience. Through practical strategies; from scoring systems to emotional role-play; Victoria empowers listeners to become their own best Game Masters, designing lives filled with purpose, fun, and discovery.
Victoria Ichizli-Bartels
she/her/hers
Originator of Self-Gamification
Electronics Engineer with a Ph.D., S1000D expert Optimist Writer
Victoria Ichizli-Bartels is a writer, coach, and consultant with a background in semiconductor physics, electronic engineering (with a Ph.D.), information technology, and business development. While not a traditional gamer, Victoria coined the term "self-gamification," a gameful and playful approach to self-care and self-help that combines anthropology, kaizen, and gamification-based methods to enhance quality of life. She approaches all areas of her life this way. Due to the fun she has while turning everything in her life into games, Victoria intends never to stop designing, developing, and playing them. Inspired by a friend's tip, she now likes to call everyone who approaches their life gamefully, including herself, a “life gamer.” With over a decade of experience living gamefully, Victoria is the author of more than ten books and the instructor of two online courses on turning life into fun games and perceiving it as the best collection of games we design, develop, and play.
(LinkedIn): https://www.linkedin.com/in/victoriaichizlibartels/
(Facebook): https://www.facebook.com/optimistwriter
(YouTube): https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_jdqPv0QKL7pC8P_X2UD0A
(Website): https://www.victoriaichizlibartels.com/
(Other): https://selfgamificationclub.substack.com/
Dave Eng: (0:00 - 1:07)
Hi, and welcome to Experience Points by University XP. On Experience Points, we explore different ways we can learn from games. I'm your host Dave Eng from Games-Based Learning by University XP. Find out more by going to www.universityxp.com.
On today's episode, we'll learn from Victoria Ichizli-Bartels. Victoria is a writer, coach, and consultant with a Ph.D. in semiconductor physics and a background in engineering, IT, and business, but her true superpower, turning everyday life into a game. She coined the term self-gamification, a playful blend of game design, kaizen, and anthropology to help people approach challenges in curiosity with joy. Victoria has authored over 14 books, including her latest, Be Your Best Game Master, which reveals secrets to happy, successful, and kind self-growth into self-compassion and self-love. Victoria, welcome to the show!
Victoria Ichizli-Bartels: (1:08 - 1:10)
Thank you for having me, Dave. Hi.
Dave Eng: (1:11 - 1:27)
Great. Thanks for being here again, Victoria. I want to jump into your book, specifically that term you talked about before, self-gamification and origins.
So my first question is, what was that personal aha moment for you that first sparked your idea of turning everyday life into a game?
Victoria Ichizli-Bartels: (1:29 - 2:22)
What surprised me first, it actually started with writing, and somebody inspired me and said when I and my fellow writers complained about not being able to write consistently, then our teacher said, let's play a game. And later, just this writing exercise every little bit every day, I formulated it into a game to someone, to my friends, and it was just amazing how the whole drama around everyday tasks fall away if we approach them like games. And we become excellent, have fun, and it was just amazing, like I could find fun almost in everything I was approaching.
So yes, the lack of drama and fun, these were my aha moments.
Dave Eng: (2:23 - 2:40)
I see. And I know that a lot of other people I've talked to about trying to gamify different parts of their life often are rooted in playing a particular game. So was there any particular game you were thinking about, either you were playing at the time or from your childhood, that really inspired you to really take on this self-gamification origin?
Victoria Ichizli-Bartels: (2:42 - 3:14)
I don't think there was a specific game. I guess more like race against time. So when you put a timer, so those mechanics were one of the first, because also writers, they do a lot of those writing marathons or writing sprints, where they spend time together and write quickly and see who has written how much and so on. So yes, so this time dynamics was probably all races. They were kind of inspiring.
Dave Eng: (3:15 - 4:27)
I see. I know that with a lot of games, many games, you would say there is that type of constraint. And sometimes we talk about it from a design perspective, like constraints in design.
But overall, many games have specific constraints, and like you said before, time is going to be a really interesting constraint. And I think that's really important for addressing that as an applied gamification framework, because we've seen it before with game jams, where designers only have a certain amount of time in order to complete something, and a bunch of other games, because there's that overall constraint about how we approach it and how do we accomplish within the game, within our limited framework. So I see that connection there.
Thank you for sharing, Victoria. My second question I wanted to ask you was about emotional player-character dialogue. So I want people to overall read your book, but in your book, you treat emotions and thoughts like characters in an RPG, a role-playing game.
So what does it mean to like, quote-unquote, talk to your inner cast, and how can that be helpful during stress, talking to those other characters, as you referenced in your book?
Victoria Ichizli-Bartels: (4:29 - 7:24)
Originally, when I started writing this book, I was just thinking of, I heard about self-leadership, self-partnering, self-coaching, self-parenting, and I was more concentrated on that. Even the title was around these words, but then I realized that they were like roles. And so, when I was relating to myself, so I started researching role-playing games, and then I heard, I read, a quote was saying, role-playing games are conversations.
And that struck me as an aha moment, because what was inside myself, in my head, in my mind, those thought processes, they really sounded like conversations. So I started reading a little bit more about role-playing games, and then I found out there is a role that brings everything together. So I could relate almost immediately, for example, with upsets or different thoughts, conflicting thoughts as different roles.
But, and especially like listening to myself and finding out who was talking the loudest and what could be the reason for that, for those thoughts. But I was also curious, who is, what part of me was bringing everything together and especially bringing some kind of balance inside me? Who, which part of it was it?
And then I realized when I was researching about role-playing games, and especially tabletop role-playing games, that was the role of game master. And that was, it was really inspiring to read those manuals and rule books by role-playing games. And it was like reading almost like a self-help book.
It was when I was kind of drawing parallel to myself and so on, and how this person is a referee, how they start the story, the storyline, how they kind of help the players also to get the story forward, and how they could relate to them when they have, for example, a problem to, you know, they don't know how to move the story forward, so they can actually ask questions to their co-players, how to do that and what they would do it in any moment.
It was such an interesting perspective as to how to relate to myself, that my thought processes, they changed drastically from upsetting, from maybe too dragging or like dragging feet or too procrastinating or too dwelling on something. They became more dynamic and more interested, more curious, more tuned into discovery mode.
Dave Eng: (7:24 - 7:42)
I see. I think that that's a really interesting perspective, because I think giving your emotions, particularly how you feel, because it's something that's very internal, like a character, is very relatable. The thing I can think about that I think is closest to this, have you ever seen the movie Inside Out?
Victoria Ichizli-Bartels: (7:43 - 7:44)
No, I don't think so.
Dave Eng: (7:44 - 8:40)
Okay. It's an animated movie, but it's basically explores like the emotions of this. There's Inside Out 1 and Inside Out 2, at least by this recording.
And in both of them, they explore like the inner feelings of this particular kid becoming like an adolescent and then like a teenager. But each particular emotion has like, it's embodied by a person, like it's a character, an animated character in the movie. And I think that's really interesting because if sadness was a character, what would sadness look like?
If embarrassment was a character, what would embarrassment look like? So I think, and I draw parallels here between you creating characters in this fictional world that are representative of these different emotions, because ultimately it gives you and hopefully your readers like agency, the ability to be able to address these different emotions and what they're feeling. And it's very much like a role-playing game, because in role-playing games, you're playing a character and you get to interact with other characters throughout that world.
So thank you for sharing, Victoria.
Victoria Ichizli-Bartels: (8:41 - 8:44)
Yes, absolutely. Thank you. And actually, I recalled the movie, I watched this movie.
Dave Eng: (8:45 - 8:45)
Oh, you have seen it.
Victoria Ichizli-Bartels: (8:45 - 10:18)
I just forgot the title. So yes, it absolutely goes similar way. But what is interesting, I realized that inside myself, these roles, they can be changing.
So they can maybe assume a group together. So they are not always static. They are very dynamic and changing.
And sometimes just identifying them means like, for example, there was an experience, recent experience where I was spending Christmas with my loved ones and so on. And at some point I had a very anxious, I felt a little bit tight and I was anxious and I was wondering why. So I was, I asked myself, what's happening inside me?
And then I asked myself, who is that? And then the answer was very interesting. It was someone who wants to belong, but afraid not to, not to belong.
And it was really like a light bulb. And then I started drawing my attention to the things that might maybe show otherwise, that I really belong. And I could immediately saw them.
And this worry, this anxiety, it stopped. It was very interesting just to see and to ask myself in every moment, who could that be? Who maybe worries or is afraid or what is happening?
Where is this fear coming from? It's very interesting. And it's very like, it's like a discovery, an adventure.
Dave Eng: (10:19 - 10:52)
Right. And I think that's really important because ultimately you want your readers and those that are practicing self gamification to be able to improve their lives. And that goes into my third and last question here, which is on playfulness and productivity.
So I wanted to know, how does living gamefully impact your productivity and time management? Especially when life throws you curveballs, a lot of games have challenges, many games have challenges. And life particularly has challenges.
So specifically referencing your book, how does living gamefully impact your productivity and time management?
Victoria Ichizli-Bartels: (10:54 - 12:43)
It helps immensely. And especially because of the resourcefulness and multidimensionality of games. Because the more I learn about games, the more inspired I become.
And also the whole upsets, they become much shorter. The whole complaints in my head about the task at hand, they become much, much shorter because I start considering how could I adjust those rules? So I really like the definition of games by Jane McGonigal, who says that every game consists of goals, rules, feedback system and voluntary participation.
And I realized that this first three components, goals, rules and feedback system, they actually, if they are in balance, then they kind of guarantee my participation, volunteer or engagement into game. So if I am not compelled by the goal, I might maybe create another goal, a gameful goal, like maybe give myself a title or whatever, or reach a certain amount of points or gems, collect gems or whatever, that bring me along this goal. Also the rules to bring something fun and also the feedback to record the scores in some fun way, or maybe even do a little dance when I win or whatever, when no one is looking.
So those kind of things, it brings resourcefulness, it brings playfulness and also fun. I enjoy my company much more, and through that also productivity becomes not something I try to push, but a byproduct, which just goes along the way, along the way of having fun.
Dave Eng: (12:44 - 13:46)
Thanks, Victoria. I think that I really like Jane's definition of games there. The one thing that I always like to focus on is there needs to be some sort of voluntary participation in the game.
So I wanted to know if you could speak to this for a moment about, you know, like I play a lot of tabletop games and I play a lot of Euro-based games, and a lot of these Euro-based games have different ways you can win, different ways you can earn points. But I think some of the best ones really, they force you to make a decision at some point in the game to either pursue one track of gaining victory points and hopefully winning and abandoning some other tracks. So I think that this has a parallel to your book and your philosophy in general.
How would you say you've incorporated a point in your life or like a player's life or reader's life when it might make sense to give up on this goal? You know, like you no longer want to voluntarily participate, it's no longer fun or it doesn't meet your needs. Do you address any of that in the book or in your own philosophy?
Like at some point you just have to say, no, like I don't want to continue down this path and I want to give up and try something new.
Victoria Ichizli-Bartels: (13:47 - 15:07)
Yes, absolutely. I compare it like, you know, stopping, enjoying playing something, something in a game. So you just stop playing it and you turn to another game.
You might rediscover it later. So, and maybe come back and start playing again, but it's really like stopping one game and another. And actually this concept of stopping is also something that I realized when I start complaining about playing my real life game.
I realized that actually this complaint is already means stopping. So I stopped it. So I asked myself, do I want to play it, come back, so put away my complaints or maybe do I want to do something else?
So this idea of, especially this understanding of voluntary participation helps a lot to see maybe I need a break at certain point. Maybe I actually enjoy an activity. Sometimes I really love reading and writing, but sometimes I see my thoughts wandering while I read my favorite author.
And then I realized, okay, actually I want to do something else. So this understanding is really helpful. And yes, so it's about stopping and starting another game.
So I hope it answers the question.
Dave Eng: (15:08 - 15:22)
It does. It does. Sometimes, to quote one of my favorite movies, WarGames, sometimes the only winning move is not to play.
So some games are worth giving up, some games are worth pursuing, but we ultimately leave it up to the player to make that decision. So thank you, Victoria.
Victoria Ichizli-Bartels: (15:22 - 16:36)
Absolutely. And actually I read once, I think also in Jane McGonigal's book, Reality is Broken. When somebody tried to play 24 hours a day and it could be also done only over a short amount of time.
There is no game you would play all the time. The same with real life activities. And actually it's strange because sometimes we put too much pressure on ourselves in real life saying, oh, you don't finish your tasks.
You are not hardworking enough to do that and so on. But in games, we don't do that. We don't do that pressure.
We don't require a person to play 24, seven or four, eight hours without a break or to be concentrated all the time. And that's why I like our approach, our behavior in games and see how we can bring this behavior or help ourselves to behave in a similar way and to change our perspective to be gameful in real life, because then we stop putting pressure and instead become our own great team members in the play.
Dave Eng: (16:37 - 16:52)
Great. All great takeaways, Victoria, and I thank you for sharing. Unfortunately, we have to come to the end of our interview, so I want to thank you again for sharing your time with us today.
Where can people go out to find more about you and more importantly, pick up a copy of your book?
Victoria Ichizli-Bartels: (16:54 - 17:24)
They can find me on my website, www.victoriaichizlibartels.com, but also if you search for Optimist Writer, you will find me easily. And I'm also on LinkedIn and Facebook, also the same Optimist Writer extensions, if you put that. And also on Substack, you will find me in Self Gamification Club.
So I invite you to join. Yes, these are the places to find me.
Dave Eng: (17:24 - 17:30)
Great. Thank you, Victoria. I'll make sure to include all of those links in the references or show notes.
So thanks again for joining us.
Victoria Ichizli-Bartels: (17:30 - 17:32)
Thank you very much for having me.
Dave Eng: (17:33 - 18:37)
I hope you found this episode useful. If you'd like to learn more than a great place to start is with my free course on gamification. You can sign up for it at www.universityxp.com/gamification. You can also get a full transcript of this episode, including links to references in the description or show notes. So thanks for joining us again. I'm your host, Dave Eng from Games-Based Learning by University XP. On Experience Points, we explore different ways we can learn from games. If you like this episode, please consider commenting, sharing and subscribing. Subscribing is absolutely free and ensures that you'll get the next episode of Experience Points delivered directly to you. I'd also love it if you took some time to rate the show. We live to lift others with learning. So if you found this episode useful, consider sharing it with someone who could also benefit. Also make sure to visit University XP online at www.universityxpcom. University XP is also on Twitter, Bluesky, Facebook and LinkedIn as University XP. Also feel free to email me anytime. My email address is dave@universityxp.com. Game on!
Cite this Episode
Eng, D. (Host). (2026, May 17). Victoria Ichizli-Bartels on Be Your Best Game Master. (No. 164) [Audio podcast episode]. Experience Points. University XP. https://www.universityxp.com/podcast/164
Internal Ref: UXPFOHHDR9T7
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