Episode 162 Jon Spike on Games as Creative Constraint
Jon Spike on Games as Creative Constraint
Episode Summary
In this episode of Experience Points, Jon Spike explores how creative constraint drives innovation in game design and learning. A former K–12 English teacher now working at University of Wisconsin–Whitewater, Jon shares how classroom experimentation led him to design tabletop educational games through GamestormEDU. He highlights Gamestormers, which uses a five-card structure to scaffold storytelling while preserving player agency, and Doomscroll, where players step into the role of social media algorithms to unpack persuasive design. Jon emphasizes that educational games must first succeed as enjoyable experiences. Through thoughtful playtesting and adaptable design, he argues that strong constraints don’t limit creativity—they focus and elevate it.
Jon Spike
he/him/his
Game Designer, Publisher, and Higher Education Instructor/Staff
University of Wisconsin-Whitewater and GamestormEDU LLC
Jon Spike, PhD, is a former K-12 English teacher and technology integrator who now serves as the Coordinator of Instructional Technology and Integration Services at University of Wisconsin-Whitewater in the College of Education and Professional Studies. Jon earned his doctorate in Instructional technology from Northern Illinois University, where he researched collaborative learning experience design in virtual reality. Jon is the CEO of GamestormEDU, where he designs educational board and card games for schools, families, and organizations. Jon released Gamestormers, a competitive storytelling game, in 2023 and Doomscroll, a social media literacy card game, in 2025. Both games were finalists in the Gee Learning Game Awards Tabletop Competition. Jon has presented around the country at the International Society of Technology in Education Conference, the Future of Educational Technology Conference, and the North American Simulation and Gaming Society Conference.
(Bluesky): https://bsky.app/profile/jonspike.bsky.social
(Twitter): https://x.com/jonathanspike
(LinkedIn): https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-spike-a9771353/
(Facebook): https://www.facebook.com/jonathanstevenspike
(Instagram): https://www.instagram.com/game.stormedu
(Website): https://gamestormedu.com
Dave Eng:
Hi, and welcome to Experience Points by University XP. On Experience Points, we explore different ways we can learn from games. I'm your host, Dave Eng, from Games-Based Learning by University XP. Find out more by going to www.universityxp.com
On today's episode, we'll learn from Jon Spike. Dr. Jon Spike is an educator and innovator who blends technology, creativity, and learning. He started as a high school English teacher and now works at the University of Wisconsin-Whitewater, helping future educators and professionals use technology with confidence. He holds a Ph.D. in Instructional Technology, where he focused on VR-based collaborative learning. Jon is also the CEO of GamestormEDU, the company behind the educational games Gamestormers and Doomscroll, both finalists at the Gee Learning Game Awards. He's a national speaker on games-based learning and immersive ed tech. Jon, welcome to the show!
Jon Spike:
Yeah, Dave, thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here and chat with you.
Dave Eng:
Great. Glad to have you here again, Jon. I know that you've been part of the Games-Based Learning Virtual Conference in the past, so I'd really just like to jump into this at the very beginning and talk about you, your background and your work, with a little bit more about your career pivot origins. My first question is, what sparked your interest in designing educational games like Gamestormers and Doomscroll?
Jon Spike:
Yeah, I will say it first started with using games in my own practices. I would use games in my teaching, starting out in high school, English Language arts. A lot of times I'd use a game as a companion to maybe the text we were reading and analyzing, so pairing games that worked well, like pairing the game spent with To Kill a Mockingbird, to help understand the perspectives of why someone maybe their pride prevents them from taking a gift or a loan from someone else in the context of the story.
Sometimes games and simulations can help us understand those perspectives. And then when I moved into tech integration, helping people use commercial games, analyzing games as literature, something that we did with a game like Gone Home. We use that in English Language arts to analyze it, like reading a story.
And then I got really into board and card games. Some friends of mine were passionate about them, we'd have game nights, and I got really into actually kickstarting games, so going to crowdfunding and kickstarting indie game designers games, because you got invested in their story. And so then I kind of said to myself, it'd be really fun to develop a game and kickstart one when I had a good idea.
Jon Spike:
And Gamestormers, our first game that we released through GamestormEDU, was kind of this a-ha of what if there was a game that helped students and teachers develop their own game ideas. And so it was a game where you came up with basically a five-card game narrative. And so, you know, kind of had the genesis, the idea, iterated on it, got it to a point, you know, through playtesting with students, teachers, just regular game players where I felt comfortable, you know, taking it to crowdfunding, and, you know, got funded and then released that game in 2023.
So that was one step. And then after that, I kind of said, you know, I enjoyed that process, kind of scratched an itch of, you know, creating and writing and developing that I have as an educator. And another idea came along of how do we talk about, you know, kind of the tough topic of social media literacy in an engaging way.
And so Doomscroll was a game designed out of how do we help students understand, you know, how, you know, we as consumers of social media are being kind of catered to, we're being manipulated. And Doomscroll, that whole game is the students actually are the social media company trying to do these same tactics to, you know, these unwitting users in the game. So they kind of get a sense of, oh, here's what's being done to me.
Jon Spike:
How can I be more self-aware of it? So, yeah, what sparked my interest was challenges of, you know, could I develop a game where you are storytelling, you know, and then Doomscroll was, can we develop a game, you know, where students are understanding social media literacy. And currently iterating on a game that asks the question of how can we take the best elements of like fantasy sports and drafting and turn those into an educational experience. So that's the current project I'm working on.
Jon Spike:
And it also kind of nicely wraps up kind of the trilogy because these games are all kind of in the same world. So, you know, I know film and books, oftentimes the trilogy is kind of the narrative structure. And so that's kind of been my game design trilogy too.
So, yeah, that's, I think the big piece is just it came out of my own passions and education and games and game design kind of coming together.
Dave Eng:
I see. Wow. Thanks, Jon . A couple of follow-up questions. One, what do you have a working title for the fantasy sports game that you're working on right now?
Jon Spike:
Yeah, so the working title right now is Fantasy Loot Brawl. And I may pivot to Fantasy Loot Ball, you know, the brawl was kind of a fun play on the fantasy football. There is a game out there called Fantasy Brawl. And I don't, I don't know if it'll be too markedly close where I don't want, you know, us stepping on each other's toes.
So I'm kind of kicking that around. But that Fantasy Loot and either Brawl or Ball, but right now it's Brawl. And yeah, at developing that, I'm actually getting ready to send prototypes out to a variety of schools across the country to play test it. So that's kind of the backstory to that.
Dave Eng:
With Doomscroll and Fantasy Loot Brawl, I guess for the meantime, are these all tabletop games?
Jon Spike:
Yep. All three are specifically meant to be board and card games or tabletop games. And I guess the closest to like the digital version is I usually put kind of our prototypes on Tabletopia, an online platform for, you know, playing games. So that's kind of the closest it comes to kind of that digital overlap. But yeah, nothing where it's strictly app based or anything like that or web based.
Dave Eng:
I know that we had, we had connected on this originally before because I am a lucrative Kickstarter backer myself. I think I have like between 300 and 400 like backed projects on Kickstarter. So I know the feeling and I know the impetus for people to want to back things on Kickstarter, especially like tabletop games, because there's definitely that FOMO effect.
But another part I wanted to ask you about, Jon, before, and this has kind of come up as a theme with other educators and designers I've talked to in the field, you talked about specifically like media literacy. Do you have like a philosophy or background on like analyzing games as a type of media in the same way we, you know, like educators would analyze like film or books or literature in that way? Because I feel like there's a disconnect. I still approach games like it's a piece of media to analyze and criticize, but I kind of wanted to get your take on it too.
Jon Spike:
Yeah, I think it really depends too, you know, how I analyze it. A lot of times depends on how the actual publisher or designer, you know, author, you know, has approached it. You know, when we critically analyze, you know, some games that are more of like the, you know, they call them like walking simulators if you're talking about a video game.
Some of those are actually structured very much like you're unfolding a narrative and they may be designed the game to kind of encourage you to go down a path. You might have some autonomy and agency to make some decisions that might change how the order of the narrative, but you're probably going to get a somewhat structured narrative. And then some games are very much like you are the agent deciding how this narrative plays out with tabletop and board and card games.
Sometimes it's more of like you are, you know, either, you know, getting a persona that you're taking on. Maybe everybody in the game has the same persona. Maybe you have slightly different personas that change your play style. I think that all changes how we interpret the experience. So to overlay like a specific approach or process, it really depends, I think, heavily on how that experience has been designed. And some align a little bit more with our traditional media that we analyze like film, like books, short stories, and even things like songs.
Jon Spike:
But others, I think, definitely, you know, rely on maybe a more specific approach because of the way they were designed being really lending itself to just let's break down and talk about why they've given you that particular perspective, you know, what decisions you made as an agent of the game. And I think that's what makes games and analysis a lot different is because you do typically, unless the game is so structured where you're on one ride and you're going this one path, you really dictate a lot of how you're going to interpret the world because you've got that call to make versus a film or a book taking you on a specific journey.
Dave Eng:
I see. That's really interesting. I think that approach to agency and interpretation is really useful and I think really applicable from like an educator and a learning perspective. But that goes into my second question here, which is on mechanics meeting storytelling. So going back originally to your first project, GameStormers, how specifically does GameStormers turn creative storytelling into like a structured competitive game experience?
Jon Spike:
Yeah, I think GameStormers was really inspired by some of my favorite games involve, you know, you getting some creative constraints, you're given maybe a few cards, you know, you're given a few prompts, you're rolling dice and giving a few different scenarios and you really, as the player, have been asked to fill in the gaps and connect these ideas, you know, so there's a variety of games out here like Snake Oil or Silicon Valley Startups where you take these prompts you're given and maybe you make a few selections out of the stimuli you're given and then you, you know, kind of pitch maybe to a judge or you're trying to impress the other players. And I love that design because it's very intimidating to turn to someone and say, hey, just make up something on the spot. Take this blank piece of paper and fill it with a story.
But if you give people some little creative starters, it's really fun to see what they do with it. And so GameStormers at its core is players either during the full game or acquiring a variety of cards that fit into the kind of game narrative they're writing or creating or designing or in the party version, they're dealt out multiples and they kind of whittle it down to the kind of their core narrative story that they're creating. And then, yeah, in the party version, impressing a judge, in the full version, impressing the whole slew of game players.
So I've always been fascinated by that. I just didn't think there was a game that really married a variety of things. Number one, GameStormers has this beautiful art on each card. So as you're developing your kind of narrative, you can use the art to kind of help you prompt and deliver your story. A lot of other games are just there's a word stimuli, you know, just this this kind of word or phrase that kind of helps you along. Ours is the art, the text, you know, being part of that stimulus and then your own kind of interests and backgrounds being kind of another pool to draw from.
Jon Spike:
So I think that's what sets us apart. We have over 140 unique pieces of art in our game that are everything from kind of the items in your game, the nouns, the who's in your game, the where are you basing your game and what can you use in your game. And then we also have these mechanics cards, which are kind of the what can you do? What gets in your way? What are obstacles you have to overcome? And all that art helps for a variety of reasons.
Again, another stimuli to get your creative juices flowing. But then also our game, we put ages nine and up on the box, but I've had kids as young as six and seven aging in the game because the art allows them to overcome the barrier of maybe not having the context of what the card says. A good example is we have a chariot card and a six-year-old might not know a chariot, but I have a six-year-old look at it and go, oh, and in my game, there's a magic wagon that you can to time travel.
And so this particular six year old said, oh, that looks like a fancy wagon. It's magical. This is the next part of my story. That's kind of another way it kind of breaks down barriers when you have beautiful art as a stimuli, in addition to just cards with words on them, too. So, yeah, that's I think how turned it into more of a structured storytelling is using the art and the domain in kind of context of the words and the whole, you know, essence of the game as a five card narrative.
Jon Spike:
Could be a game narrative, could be a film narrative, book narrative. That's the other thing, too, is we don't really discriminate on what people want to create. If they're not yours, tell your novel idea. If you are a gamer, build out, flesh out your video game, your card game, your tabletop game.
Dav Eng:
I see. Thanks, Jon. I know that the overall narrative structure, it seems like it's very well scaffolded. Those players and learners that may not be very comfortable or maybe adamant about creating like their own creative experience might be a little bit more hesitant to play.
It's been a while since I've seen the actual demo and your actual presentation from the conference. But for those that are listening that may not be completely familiar with the game, would it be reductive to say that it is similar to like the Mad Lib structure of like filling in the blank? Or would you say that this kind of GameStormers really iterates on that by creating, again, you're limited to like a five card structure for your narrative. But the ways in order in which it's structured with both words and graphics and images and illustrations kind of iterates on what other people might call Mad Libs.
Jon Spike:
Yeah, I think that's a good analogy is like there's a Mad Lib structure, but you don't have to follow this specific flow. So we give you a slot for what's your overall storyline to your game? What's your subject? And so you fill in one storyline, and then you've got slots for two items, which are your nouns, people, places, things.
We just call them items because it fits more of that game context. And then we say you've got slots for two mechanics, which are your verbs. So very much Mad Libby and that those terms are kind of placeholders.
And the reason we went with those terms rather than noun, verb, subject is because number one, it kind of subtly teaches game design about what are the things in your game? What are the mechanical things that could happen? And seeing that a lot of these in games are analogous.
Jon Spike:
So, you know, a malfunction is analogous to a mechanic in a game of like, you get the malfunction card, it's part of your narrative. But that's also a mechanic of your game of something goes wrong, and you have to repair your ship, maybe, right? So we're getting the players to think in kind of the metaphors of game design. We'll do that. But yeah, it is very Mad Lib of you get this board. It has five slots.
We have said you're putting two of the items to the mechanics and one of the storylines in. However, how you weave those together entirely up to you. The first question I get is, do I have to start in order and go through? And I say, no, you know, weave the cards together however you best see fit.
And that's part of the magic of it is seeing how people ping pong around to make all of this narrative structure work in the game they're designing. So that's, yeah, very much Mad Lib to provide scaffolding and structure, but then very much opposite of Mad Lib of you take us on the journey in the order that makes sense for your narrative.
Dave Eng:
I see. Great. Thank you, Jon. I appreciate the insight there. That actually pivots into my third and last question, which is on designing with purpose. And I know that using and creating a game for teaching and learning can, it's very difficult. One, I think creating games are just difficult in its own right.
And I think particularly for educators that are new to games-based learning, it can be, you know, especially daunting. So I like the fact that, you know, you're able to kind of simplify this entire aspect into this five-card structure, which I think makes it very approachable and applicable for both learners and educators alike. But overall, what would you say is the biggest challenges in making educational games both fun and genuinely effective? Because I think to approach either one of them is very difficult, but to do both is incredibly challenging.
Jon Spike:
Yeah, I think the first piece that is absolutely crucial, and this comes from somebody who's played educational games as a student, this is coming from someone who's tried to design them, you know, or use educational games, you know, in the classroom. The first thing to say is that our students are no fools. They can pick up when somebody is just trying to disguise, you know, a pretty standard lesson, lecture, concept, and try to put on some frills to it to make it feel as though it's a game.
And so the number one thing when designing a game that could be used in education is you have to start with, you know, does this just stand alone as an enjoyable experience as a game? Is this something that somebody would genuinely pick up and pull out on a Saturday night and play, you know, regardless of whether they pull it out on a Tuesday morning in class, you know, is it something that genuinely, yeah, this is something that somebody would choose to do. And so our early playtesting, I never start playtesting with teachers and students. I start playtesting with just gamers, you know, just like casual, you know, games and, you know, every now and then, you know, have a family or friends board game night, you know, have them play it and just get a sense of, is this just something that plays well as a standalone game? So that's my initial playtesting.
I also just playtest to see, is it balanced? Is it, you know, is there, you know, is there too much downtime? Is it, you know, too much decision-making, you know, happening too little? And so you get ironed out of, is this a game that just people would select and pull off the shelf? And then from there, you start looking at, okay, does this now align with some of the key aspects of what we're doing in our classrooms? And is there a way to continue to refine it and hone it that it's a good fit for classrooms without pulling away the essence of what makes it engaging and enjoyable and gets people thinking critically, gives them that good kind of, you know, I think in the hobby, they call crunchy decisions where you're kind of trying to math your way of, am I making the best move, you know, to optimize my success and we're making the best move to impress people subjectively, you know, that sort of thing. And so, you know, it's finding a balance with all that. And I think the other thing that I have the advantage of is coming from the education sphere, I know what our standards are.
Jon Spike:
I know the skills and objectives we're going for. So the aligning of games to those is not hard for me. Sometimes it's hard to crystallize that to others of, hey, this is really valuable. Here's why we see it. Here's how you can use it. And then also designing for a classroom limitations of it needs to play quickly.
It needs to be an easy teach. It needs to, you know, be something that the teacher could maybe set and forget and let the students take the lead on. And it needs to be flexible.
They might have 10 minutes, they might have 45 minutes. So can you design a game that's flexible enough to meet those parameters and those scenarios? So I think that's some of the biggest challenges too, is your game really needs to be adaptable to the needs of that educator as well. So yeah, I think those are the big ones.
Definitely designing for commercial fun first and foremost, then aligning it, you know, with education in meaningful ways and designing a game that just is practical to be used in the classroom, which is very, very tough, you know, to have a genuinely good game that's also adaptable. I think those are the big, big challenges.
Dave Eng:
Yeah, I think that having talked to other commercial game designers before, it's really all about that core loop.
Like, is this thing that you're doing fun enough? And if it's not, then that's not a whole lot to build, to continue building a game on. And then, you know, per your point, you now also have to marry it with, you know, like, what are the specific learning outcomes you're teaching to? What is the educational outcome or something else? So it's very challenging. And I think that there's, like, to your point, there's multiple ways that you can address it.
You start out with that core loop, making sure that it's fun first, trying to connect it with learning outcomes. I know other educators that are trying to get into the game design sphere who are starting with, you know, like, I'm trying to teach X, Y, and Z, or this is the outcome for this student, and I'd like to create, like, a serious game around it. And then, you know, they'll go down that path, but then they'll have to find something that is, like, indicative of the experience, like, that they want their players and their learners to do.
Dave Eng:
And I think it's really tough, because it is, like, spinning multiple plates all at the same time and hoping that they all align. So I think for you, Jon, specifically, because you're able to get Gamestormers off the ground and successfully funded and produced and in the hands of educators and learners is a testament to your success. So congrats, Jon.
Jon Spike:
Oh, thank you. Yeah. And I do want to shout out. We have a wonderful group of people who playtest them. So, you know, we have educators, we have students who, you know, give very, very direct feedback. And I mean that in the best way possible.
Your playtesters need to be honest with you. And I'll tell you what, elementary and middle schoolers are really honest with you sometimes. And it's really great because, you know, you need that data.
I mean, if they, as your main demographic who's going to be playing your game, if they aren't playing it, they're expressing frustration. You need to be able to address that and find a way to make these games click. And so, yeah, it comes down to just, you know, educators believing in it and putting it in front of students to try out.
Dave Eng:
So thanks for joining us today, Jon. Where can people go to find out more about you online?
Jon Spike:
Yeah, I think one of the best places is, you know, shameless plug to www.gamestormedu.com is our website. So you can see, you know, how to get in touch with me.
We've got a, you know, contact us form there for me. I'm on, you know, a lot of the socials as well, just under Jonathan Spike or Jon Spike. And then our GameStormEDU LLC company too is on, you know, all the major socials.
But yeah, I definitely encourage you to check out www.gamestormedu.com. And again, if you do have questions or, you know, inquiries about our work, feel free to reach out there. And then you can also learn more about Gamestormers, Doomscroll, and we do have information up there about our upcoming game, Fantasy Loot Brawl as well. So yeah, it's probably the best place.
Dave Eng:
All right, sounds good. I will make sure that all of those links are included in the show notes. So thank you, Jon.
Jon Spike:
Yeah, thank you, Dave. Really appreciate what you're doing here.
Dave Eng:
I hope you found this episode useful. If you'd like to learn more, then a great place to start is with my free course on gamification. You can sign up for it at www.universityxp.com/gamification. You can also get a full transcript of this episode, including links to references in the description or show notes.
Thanks for joining us. Again, I'm your host Dave Eng from Games-Based Learning by University XP. On Experience Points, we explore different ways we can learn from games.
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Cite this Episode
Eng, D. (Host). (2026, April 19). Jon Spike on Games as Creative Constraint. (No. 162) [Audio podcast episode]. Experience Points. University XP. https://www.universityxp.com/podcast/162
Internal Ref: UXPY434NGU52
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